96 thoughts on “Hinduism and Racism in Trinidad”

1. I can clearly remember when some Africans in Trinidad were exposing the information that Krishna, Rama and a few others were black according to the literature that some of us got from Dalits in India. When pundits on Indian religious shows were presented with this information they claimed that these dark-skin images that we saw were symbolic and not actually the color of the people. One pundit claimed these characters were dark because of the type of rock used to do the sculptures. Not one pundit in Trinidad ever came on the radio or television and clearly stated that these characters were black. In fact, Indians were being taught that Black people came about when Ram burned Ravana and black was the color of evil.

   It was Africans and not Indians in Trinidad who exposed the Dalit side of the story that many of the main characters in Hinduism were black. I know several Africans who were distributing literature that pointed to a cover-up of the actual color of many of the main characters in Indian religious stories. Africans were sharing this information in response to some of the racist comments that were coming form Indian spokesmen and pundits on the radio. The Dalit books to that effect were imported by Africans and are sold in African books shops in Trinidad.

   Hinduism as is practiced in India and Trinidad does relegate dark-skin people to the lowest caste and highly values light skin. Hinduism as is taught in Trinidad does promote racism. Some shifts have taken place following Indian Indentureship that allowed some dark-skin Indians to acquire land and money. Some even returned to India with money. Some dark skin Indians have become wealthy and their wealth seems to override caste considerations in some quarters. Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar, the chief architect of the Indian Constitution helped expose the evil in Hinduism. (See: http://www.trinicenter.com/articles/1949.html)

   This quote speaks volumes:

   “I stand by my claim that Indo-Trinis who try to speak against racism are subjected to the double attack of the Sats and Devants who they are up against in their own communities, and the Africans who label them as both racist and hypocritical. I have seen this myself.”

   I understood that you were trying to make a hypothetical point earlier on, but now you have shifted and are attempting to present this scenario as a statement of fact by stating “I stand by my claim that Indo-Trinis who try to speak against racism are subjected to the double attack…”
   When and where did Indian Trinidadians try to speak out against racism in the Indian community? Where is your evidence in support of this assertion?

2. Peter Beharry
   Nov 14th, 2007 at 8:23 am

   Dear Mr. Ruel Daniels and Ms. Linda Edwards

   Let’s try to be constructive.

   Let’s say that there is are Indo-Trinis who are not in support of the East Indian racism against others and wish to simply be regular Trinis, able to interact with others, free of the “brahmin/racist” taint and label.
   What do you suggest that this person should say or do?
   (Let’s leave out “migrate”, “commit suicide”, “go to st. ann’s, or “could never have been born in the first place”
   Thanks
   Peter Beharry

   The first thing I would suggest Mr Beharry, is that you develope a compass of integrity that would guide you against deceitful false representations. You Sir have sunk to new low on this board. So determined are you to silence exposure of racism emanating from some in the Indian/Hindu community in Trinidad and Tobago, that you have posted lies and misrepresented them as words of one of the two names that sticks in your craw. That you have sunk to that low Sir convinces me that you are indeed one of those we speak of.

   I hold constructive conversations or exhanges with people who have integrity whether they are wrong or right. It is a waste of time and effort to exchange ideas or opinions with someone who will, rather than dealing with the context of your positions, scurry around and fabricate comments that will provide him with fodder to start off from.

3. Dear Heru
   I have only my personal experience of what has happened to me and some of my relatives in my community with regard to my “assertion”.
   Dear Mr. Daniels
   I am at least gratified that you have referred to “racism emanating from some in the Indian/Hindu community in Trinidad and Tobago” rather than “from all of”. I take that as an acknowledgement that at least a few from this community are capable of being non-racist. And, at least, you seem to consider me as having potential to develop integrity, even if you meant that rhetorically.
   I still do not understand how you see me as “silencing” exposure of racism. I have not attributed the above phrases as quotations from you or Ms. Edwards– I was simply asking that you provide me with honest answers rather than facile put-downs (and pre-empted some of the possible put-downs.
   Let me ask my questions again, in a spirit of humility, begging a plain answer.
   Can one see any good in any Hindu Trinidadians?
   Are there non-racist Indo or Hindu Trinidadians who can be exempted from anti-racist “thunder”? If so, can attacks be focused and phrased as applying to a subgroup of racists among Hindu Trinis?
   Can one see potential in some Hindu Trinidadians to throw off racist blinkers and integrate fully into Trinbagonian/Caribbean society?
   Again– any constructive advice for Hindus in general and myself in particular with regard to declaring independence from or even deposing the vocal racist hindu “leaders”?
   And- do you think I can ever clear my name?
   Respectfully
   Peter Beharry

4. Or is it hopeless?
   Or am I born into the guilt that can never be removed?
   I’m not quoting you, or lying against you.
   These are my labels.
   Guilt that floats around me, attaches to me, enters my dreams, troubles my sleep.
   Racist like Sat.
   Thief like Panday.
   Born that way.
   They’re all deceitful.
   The original intention of the British was to ship them back to India.
   What a pity they didn’t.
   This is my inner monologue.
   This is what the streetlights blink to me, what the wind whispers to me.
   This is the reproach in the silent glances of the passers-by.
   Don’t belong here.
   Shouldn’t have been born.
   Why don’t they all drink Gramoxone?
   Thieves.
   Stealing money, scholarships, jobs.
   Drinking our water, breathing our air.
   Brown cockroaches.

   Can I rise above this?
   Can I ever fit?
   Can I be useful?

   Tell me something good.

5. Peter Beharry,

   people who have been following African history and debates in Trinidad and Toabgo would find your comments about the black deities in Hinduism laughable, especially as Hindus in Trinidad do not publicly acknowledge this.

   The reference that I made to racialized “inferiorizations” in Hindu religious tradition goes beyond mythical bounds. The Caste system that is heavily tied to skin color, which assigned poor treatment to people of lower caste is the main fuel for racism in Hinduism. The treatment to people of lower castes as is documented in the laws of Manu helped shape racist attitudes.

   The information about Black gods and mythological heroes in your first response to my post was information that was ascertained by several Dalit scholars who sought to reclaim their history before Aryan and other White deliberate textual misconfigurations. Understanding the recent ancestral African link to India (among other places) several African scholars had empathized with the struggles of the Dalit and the other so-called tribal peoples of India. In fact, many Dalit Indians reached out to Africans in Africa and America to lend support to their struggles. As a result, several Afrocentric historians in Trinidad and Tobago and persons who followed closely to world politics were the first to access and spread the literature produced by the Dalit in this country (as Heru also pointed out). Indians in Trinidad and Tobago have never publicly identified with the Dalit believing instead the inferiority of these darker-skinned people propagated in their religion and boosted by European racism. The point has not been “distorted by some racist indos, possibly influenced by British color prejudices”, it has been embedded and perpetuated in the minds of Hindus even before British colour and racial prejudices entered the picture. British arrival and colonization of India only furthered what was already in existence. Hindus have never related the history of their Black gods publicly to the Trinidad and Tobago population nor have they challenged their religious leaders about it.

   You were asked to provide some evidence to substantiate this quote:

   “I stand by my claim that Indo-Trinis who try to speak against racism are subjected to the double attack of the Sats and Devants who they are up against in their own communities, and the Africans who label them as both racist and hypocritical. I have seen this myself.”

   and this quote below is your reply?

   “Dear Heru
   I have only my personal experience of what has happened to me and some of my relatives in my community with regard to my “assertion”.”

   What you have presented is NO evidence as anyone can say he/she had a personal experience with anything and he/she could be lying. I wish that you could have presented proper evidence through which posters here could have been informed.

   “Please understand- attacking all indo-trinis or all hindus in response to the Sat-like, vocal racists, just forces them to turn inwards and seek the company of their own ethnic group– not from hatred of others, but fear and unease engendered by those who place a single label of “evil racist” on all those with the misfortune to be born of east indian ancestry.”

   The Indian community for the most part has always kept a certain distance from the rest of the public in Trinidad and Tobago, understandably so because of their large numbers and the fact that their religious and cultural beliefs have been kept alive and intact no matter how distorted they may be. In fact, many deliberately separated themselves from the African population because they believed that Africans were “dark and inferior”. Liaisons between them were largely secret because of the possibility of excommunication that Indians faced. Historically, Africans have had no fear of ostracism because of sexual and other relations with non-Africans.

   Recognizing and even speaking about the racism of many Indians have never prevented Africans from interacting with them on very amicable or for the very least, tolerable levels. The level of antipathy that you say Africans feel toward Indians is very exaggerated and false. Additionally, the attempt to make Indians the ultimate victims in the Trinidad and Tobago paradigm is pitiful.

   “As an Indo-Trini I have to live with the fact that NO MATTER WHAT I think, say or do, I will be hated by many or most Africans as a presumed racist solely on the grounds of my phyiscal appearance.”

   Many African-Trinidadians, no matter their being more informed or doing what is right would still be hated by other Indians, Whites and other races in the country and would be presumed inferior and subhuman based on their phenotype. Africans have a right to be distrustful of everyone else in the system because it is they who suffer worst at the hands of colour prejudice and institutionalized racism. It is you who choose to label the distrust of Africans as hate. Even with the distrust, Africans generally patronize Indian businesses and support their festivities. Generally speaking, Indians are not so reciprocal.

6. I make no claim to “ultimate victim” status.
   I need to find a way to break out from the “indian” status that labels me as having the corruption of Bas, the racism of Sat, the arrogance of Devant and the destructiveness of Dole.
   If there is a way to break out.
   And if there is, can anyone on the board help me?
   That’s what I should have asked in my first post.

7. Quote – Peter Beharry
   Nov 14th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
   I make no claim to “ultimate victim” status.
   I need to find a way to break out from the “indian” status that labels me as having the corruption of Bas, the racism of Sat, the arrogance of Devant and the destructiveness of Dole.
   If there is a way to break out.
   And if there is, can anyone on the board help me?
   That’s what I should have asked in my first post. end quote.

   Mr Beharry no group in this world are more negatively stereotyped than Africans. This does not mean that the stereotyping of Indians is remedially appropriate or justified. It simply means that your perturbation over this practice is something we have been living with for more than 300 years.

   L Paul said quote: Many African-Trinidadians, no matter their being more informed or doing what is right would still be hated by other Indians, Whites and other races in the country and would be presumed inferior and subhuman based on their phenotype. Africans have a right to be distrustful of everyone else in the system because it is they who suffer worst at the hands of colour prejudice and institutionalized racism. It is you who choose to label the distrust of Africans as hate. Even with the distrust, Africans generally patronize Indian businesses and support their festivities. Generally speaking, Indians are not so reciprocal.

   I completely agree with the analysis encouched in these comments. It is the imbalance in the examination of attitudes between the two groups that exacerbate these discussions to levels where our voices become loud and sometimes screeching. The attitutdes of the vast majority of groups in this world towards Africans, for the most part, mimic that of Europeans handed down fron generation to generation. And this is not static to one land mass. It replicates itself across continents and oceans. The reaction to anyone black drawing attention to what over the past hundreds of years have been a synchrony in the behaviours and attitudes of both white and non white peoples of this world towards Africans is always indignantly acerbic, and mischievously turning around and defining such observations as racists.

   We all have prejudices that are unhealthy from a human interactive point of view, and should never cease to examine and seek ways of expelling them from our conscious and sub-conscious introspections. But such prejudices, for the most part, are merely benign character quirks that have little impact on the lives of those it targets. It is when power is wedded with that prejudice that it explodes into misery for the targets. And that is racism. It is prejudice, plus the power to transform that prejudice into actions against the victims.

   Throughout the history of humankind, racial and ethnic prejudice have always been manifestations of a sense or belief in one group’s intellectual and human superiority over anothers. That is where the examination need to begin. People do not wake up one morning and decide to become a racist. It comes from learning, nurturing that imprint that construction into the psyche of people, and it is solidified by experiential evidence that it is a shared something. The question is, is this world brave enough to examine where this all began, take cognizance of its trends, and proceed to work towards its eradication? I think not. Rather, what emerges in my opinion, is an almost fanatical effort by some, not the entirety of any group, to avoid such examinations, and to parse history so that traditional racist attitudes find its confluence with the very group against whom, traditionally, it has most often been directed.

8. Thank you Mr. Daniels. This analysis is detailed, balanced and informative.
   As you say:
   Quote- “The attitudes of the vast majority of groups in this world towards Africans, for the most part, mimic that of Europeans handed down fron generation to generation.” end quote
   Racism coming from Indo-Trinis agains Africans, people of mixed descent and even against darker Indo-Trinis, is as evil and sickening as any other racism. It is also shamefully ironic, having been imbibed from the “upper” castes of India and from white europeans— groups that, in the main, feel contempt, if anything for the likes of us Indo Trinis (anyone remember Karisma Kapoor?).
   I intend to stand up against Indo racists in my community and I invite other Indian/Hindu trinis to do the same.
   Hinduism is a diverse group of religious practices– caste-free and anti-caste movements have existed for centuries. These forms can and should be promoted in TT.
   I hope my children’s generation can move closer to mutual respect and real integration.

   Sincerely
   Peter Beharry

9. One of America’s foremost magazines, it may have been Time or Newsweek, recently created “the face of the future”, a composite of all the races. The woman looked so much like that African-American movie star who won an Oscar,(female) that everyone thought it was she. The solution to all this racial prejudiced thinking, is inter-marriage.My Kenyan friend, and his Vietnamese wife have produced three of the most beutiful children you can imagine. My sister’s children, by her Indian husband, are also beautiful, and so is the generation after them. I wait to see what my nephew and his European wife will produce. They all look like Somalis, who are some of the most beautiful people on earth(my view).

   The issue with Trinbagonians is the older generations who believe that they are holding on to a pure gene pool. That too, is nonsense. We are all Lucy’s legacy, all children of the same ancestor, that is why we can mate together and have children. Genetic abberations result in malformed people, who do not survive long.

   Yesterday I was doing a workshop on Trinidad for some company people coming here to work. They asked, quite naturally, about racial tensions.

   I told them it was mainly political nonsense stirred up by losers. I told them that both races had been exploited by the British, and we were trying to overcome this. I told them to ignore it, but avoid making racial coments, as you never know who will turn up with a certain name. You can no longer predict what Mr. Chang, Ms. Bagwandeen, or Mr. Rowe would look like. Hail Trinidad and Tobago!

10. The solution to racial discrimination is certainly not to breed out the dominant features of Europeans, Indians, Chinese and Africans. That is tantamount to genocide.

    Racism and colorism are two of the most devastating conditions that affect the human psyche and they are prevalent even among Black people. White people practice colorism; colorism is a major influence in the caste structures in Hinduism and it is practiced among African people.

    The way to address racism is through education that allows people to learn about history including our common human origins. There should never be any deliberate promotion or advocacy that attempts to get rid of Black people or people of any race. As a matter of fact, if that unreasonable idea was deliberately encouraged, there would be the same unconscious behaviour by most people who associate Blackness with backwardness to continue trying to lighten their families as that is considered beautiful. The same attitudes and extremely negative effects of unaddressed racism would continue to befall the darkest of people. White supremacy would be further encouraged.

    Also, it should be stressed that the very idea of racial-inter-breeding to eliminate racism in very anti-African and an attempt to shut out the views, concerns and experiences of those who are the most sensitive to racism and colorism.

    It is a pity that many people cannot see beauty in its Blackest of complexions, kinkiest of hair and variety of sizes. Most people are unconsciously hooked on the European projected ideal of beauty and worthiness that disenfranchises the darkest of people. Many, because they loath blackness, often shower the most praises, affection and attention on their lighter-skin children and, of course, the darker ones readily understand that they are not preferred because of their dark skin tones and kinky hair. The notion that lighter skin and mixed race children are the most beautiful only masks contempt for Africanness and Blackness. This promotes White supremacy.

    Although many who claim to be African can appreciate the ills of racism, many do not grasp the internal self-destructive conduct of colorism. Colorism is commonly practiced by Black people against each other. Among Blacks, the mixed race, light-skin is preferred and they are promoted to represent ideal Black people. If ones look at Black music videos one would see the overwhelming obsession with lighter skin people.

    Skin lightening creams and hair straighteners are commonly used to remove traces of the features that racists hate the most. Skin bleaching is popular in Africa and elsewhere as a result of unaddressed racism and colorism. Many dark-skin Black Africans are bleaching and sometimes damaging their skins in an attempt to get better economic opportunities and wider social acceptability.

    The arrogance of many light-skin ones continually try to assert their dominance over darker folks. If one is in a meeting or a social gathering, the lighter ones are bolder and they usually dominate discourses. Generally speaking, the darker skin ones are expected to know their place is in the back.

    Even on discussion forums among people who are classified as Black, I can usually detect when there are light skin ones as many constantly try to dominate the discourses; quite often they are not well-informed and they lack much sensitivity.

    If people are interested in developing this debate I would gladly post some articles on the subject. Usually defensiveness blocks these discussions from developing.

11. Heru, where were you recently when the Nobel Laureate biologist, who had done so much gene research said that Africans/dark people were inferior? He was on his way to London to make a speech, from the America(USA) that raised him a racist. A barrage of denunciations caused him to cancel the London appearance, and resign from his position. His research organization practically disowned him. Here was a man who had reached the pinnacle of the scientific world, and his opinions had not changed much from where he was as a child. The event was covered extensively by Trinicenter.com, you could look in the archives. It was before elections.

    One of my friends, a biology PhD who had admired his work was devastated. She is African and Female. As long as people can discern exactly what race you belong to, they will have attitudes. The media and everything around us in the west fuels this daily.When people can no longer tell who is who, people are much nicer, more relaxed, not too quick to use race as a defence or offence, and really get to know each other as people.

    The people of the future will blend, to survive. Other than this, we will always think the barbarians are at the gate. The Barbarians would be anybody who does not look like us, or sound like us. One of my friends who has been to Trinidad marvels at the fact that with your back turned to a modern Trini, you CANNOT TELL ETHNIC GROUP. Radio, TV and public education has changed the country and ethnic accents. Now we need to work on the blending. Not suggesting a large soup pot here, or anything, but if we leave people alone, they will mate outside their group. Curiousity is the first step in human interaction.

    On of my racist white neighbours of long ago, lived to see his daughter leave home in anger and not come back for four years, then she walked up the steps with her brown baby, while her African American military husband stayed in their car. After about ten minutes, the mother came down the steps and welcomed her son-in-law into her house. The father died the next week. I often wonder if the soldier wore his uniform in case the father started shooting, he would have been justified in returning fire after an attack on a military officer. The father was too sick to do much. Yet this same father had been very nice to us. until his daughter started dating an African American, he was an OK guy, then it came out.Life!

12. Look, the reality of this world is that it is stratified along a continuum of color, with African dark skinned and kinky haired on one extreme end, and European pink skinned, blond haired and blue eyed on the opposite end. Power, prestige, intelligence, beauty and privilege is presumed to increase the closer one gets to the white end. And many whose physical characteristics disqualifies them from membership in the exclusive club, seek to acquire it through a convergence of shared beliefs and perspectives.

    If you were to examine the atitudes and politics of many non white, non black “new” immigrants to the US, you would detect the clear strategy of many to, “get on the good foot”, by evidencing a sharing of traditional values with the majority. Not amazingly, those values largely include positions that are inherently masks for anti African prejudice.Ironically it is the civil rights struggles of these same Africans that opened the door for these newcomers to now join the phalanx against them.

    While no less deplorable, there is a distinction in the operating mindset between the light skinned African caught up in the complexity of color power, and non Africans with such cultural patterns that were nurtured from beliefs in racial superiority. It would be disingenuous to excuse or try to explain away anti African racism by juxtapositioning it with the house slave trends of some light skinned African folk. For one thing, those cultural and other belief systems based on racial superiority existed eons before light skinned Africans figured a lessening of the melanin content in their skin might grant them qualified access to the privileged side of the continuum of color.

    As the ozone layer dissipates and nature’s judgement begins to visit the lives of humans, Bob Marley’s lyrics, “but the stone that the builder refuses, will be the head corner stone”, will become a truism of things to come, as George Orwell’s depiction of current day politics in “Animal Farm” was. Such manifestation is already apparent. In the meantime black folk need to use the truth to set them free from the myths and ill-conceived notions of their inferiority, which, in fact, amount to nothing more than cultural masturbation by those involved in the creation and perpetuation of that point of view.

13. Linda Edwards said: “Heru, where were you recently when the Nobel Laureate biologist, who had done so much gene research said that Africans/dark people were inferior?”

    Yes, I saw the news of James D. Watson, the scientist who shared a 1962 Nobel Prize, and his racist views. I did not pay much attention to him as most people harbour similar racist views but many may not publicly share them, not because they are more enlightened but because they feel it is politically incorrect to do so.

    James D. Watson is a racist and he deserved to be thrashed for his racism. What he presented was not scientific but his own racist views. He is just one of many people who is considered educated, but in my view is grossly miseducated. All their academic training does not improve their humanity so they apply the training in ways that protects the status quo of White supremacy. Many Blacks who are trained in the system do the same.

    Racial differences will not disappear and I see no reason to try to move into a hypothetical future of browns as a solution to something that proper education can fix. Whites, browns and dark-skin Blacks would always be around. The evidence today is that mixed-race and light-skin people are quite racist and color prejudiced too. So a future of them cannot produce nirvana.

    Linda Edwards, your first post and second response reek of unaddressed color prejudices. To me, your idea condones racism and, as a matter of fact, it promotes genocide as a means of ending racism. The radio, television and public education in Trinidad and Tobago lack dark-skin African sensitivity and have a history of glorifying light-skin folks. Public education has also accepted and promoted neo-colonialism. If that is their contribution to society then they have contributed to maintaining racism and colorism (nothing to be proud of there).

    Racism and colorism are learnt behaviours and anything that is learnt can be unlearnt. Whether people are so motivated to unlearn their bigotries depends on the level of their awareness and humanity. Most societies have internalized racism and colorism from their recent colonial past but this in no way means that humans are predisposed to be racist. Racism is a learnt behaviour.

    Most mixed race, light-skin people are unconscious defenders of the status quo of White supremacy as that system allows them to feel that they are at least superior to darker skin people. Historically, those same light-skin, mixed-race people that you find so beautiful in Somalia have condoned slavery against most indigenous, darker-skin Africans. Colorism is rampant in Somalia and Ethiopia. Usually, when they talk about Africans selling each other into slavery, this sellout was mostly perpetrated by mixed people who considered themselves superior to dark-skin Africans on the Continent. So to me, beauty cannot just be about physical appearances and those that have grown up in racist societies who casually accept beauty on those superficial levels are supporters and defenders of White supremacy.

    Maybe in your view the way to end gender discrimination is to find a way to breed a hybrid of people so that genders would not be recognizable, instead of encouraging people do develop their characters and become better informed.

    Your solution solves nothing. It instead transfers the poor conduct to other areas. Once dark-skin Blacks are not around it is the browns that are next as the distorted, racist pull is to be like the leaders, the symbols of beauty and privilege in the White capitalist system.

    By your proposal, instead of people evolving more humanely by addressing their character flaws they should try to change the objects of their prejudices. As I said before, that cannot solve anything. What you are proposing is to not address the real problem, but in some way to bring an end to the people who are the most sensitive and also the victims in the world.

    I love Black people who also love their blackness and do not desire to alter their complexion and hair texture in order to fit in anywhere.

    Nature had it right in allowing different hues of people to evolve in order to allow for the survival of people under different conditions. Given that people have the capacity to evolve differences then it is people who have to develop and learn how to deal with our differences in a way that respects us all. People should learn to deal with these differences through understanding how they developed their racist and sexist attitudes in the first place. They should become better informed about the nature of the people they consider inferior and superior.

    I also think that you misrepresented Tobagonians earlier on. You said:

    “The issue with Trinbagonians is the older generations who believe that they are holding on to a pure gene pool. That too, is nonsense. We are all Lucy’s legacy, all children of the same ancestor, that is why we can mate together and have children. Genetic abberations result in malformed people, who do not survive long.”

    Who are these Tobagonians who are fighting to hold on to their gene pool and do not want to mix? What evidence do you have to support your statement? If there were dark-skin, Black people who were doing that, I would be extremely proud of them as the system of racism and colorism seeks to exterminate dark-skin, Black people. Tobago’s history evolved a bit differently from that of Trinidad but still most Tobagonians unconsciously desire the same poorly analyzed upward social mobility like most other unconscious people. Where in Tobago do we have Whites (not tourists who want exotic sex) desiring to mate with Black people who in turn refuse them to hold on to their genes? You may have to further explain what you were really trying say about Tobagonians as in my view what you stated there is simply not true.

14. A specific answer to Heru: One sentence would do: Who are those…?
    The Indian grandmother of my nephews called my brother, who is lightskinned, a Nigger in the presence of four of his sisters when we came home to a family funeral; she repeated her offer to chop him up if he came into her yard, in Central;and as a result he did not marry his children’s mother, forcing them to not have a father in their house, nonetheless, they turned out all right, and have responsible jobs.Enough said?

15. Sadly, it does seem to me sometimes from my experiences
    that about half of the people on this Earth are racist.
    I’m a mixed race, (let’s just say that I live in Calif).
    I get a cold-shoulder from so many, and I feel depressed
    about it.

    When they say the “California-melting-pot”, that term
    is a lie, don’t believe it. There is no such thing.
    Here there is a lot of polarization.

    The Koreans don’t like me,
    The Armenians are really stuck up,
    Black people don’t like me.
    White people don’t like me.
    I don’t have anything to do with Mexicans;
    —I don’t speak Spanish.
    And certainly a lot of my experiences with those Indians,
    (Hindus, I mean) have been negative. They look down on me.

    It’s so confusing to call them Indians,
    because it sounds like {American} Native Americans.

16. Dear A.T. Learn, if you can, to celebrate the common humanity of all of God’s children. Focus, not on who does not like you; and unless you are being facetious, you cannot speak of any category of people as not liking you; but on the things that bind people together- Paul Robeson said it best in his classic “What Is America To Me”. It’s the place, the holidays, the foods, the wide variety of clothes people wear. It’s the toys grown ups invest in, it’s the people and their heroes; and the fact that if you lived in Outer Mongolia, you would still be different from the people there, because you are unique.

    Learn to love yourself for the who that you are; human, profoundly human, and celebrate the ethnicities that created this unique being. Lift your self-esteem.

17. Please stop all this nonsense. Indians and the negroes are the mass majority of people in the island of Trinidad. These people must learned to live with one another. Stop this racist and dark indians and the blacks. This is really stupidness. All over the world have prejudice, but not our island of trinidad. We are a cosmopolitan island. Please get your facts. The world would be a better place today, but because of this racist things will never get better, instead it is getting worst. Think about it.

18. There are blacks who are utterly racist towards indians and indians towards black…if this is not true tell me differently!

    I have heard it from both sides (being mixed) coolie boy yuuh wah dead? Eh yuh stink indian, why yuh doh go wash yuh dasheen foot…why did I have to be told those things, hey lifes tough but it goes on..one reason cus they did not know that I was half black, I wonder if they would have said the same things if they knew I was?

    Then there are Linda Edwards point about her own experiences, the road runs both ways.. and there is no denying it that one group is more racist than another, it utter garbage…in fact italians dont like either of you so deal with it..lol

    I remember one time my family went down La Brea and we ended up stopping in by a standpipe somewhere for some resson and well the village was majority black but my brother jumped out of our mazda van to wash his face and for some odd reason he wanted to drink some water, there was a black couple in a gallery and were staring at my brother and told him that water not for indian people..so he spit it out and that seemed to have offended them more than anything else, slurs of everything came out of their mouths..but my parents taught us well, tolerance, patience and faith…

    If an indian person gets cut does his blood not bleed red, if a black person gets cut do they not feel pain nor bleed red either…

    C’mon people, is ignorance really bliss?

19. I agree, on many levels with Heru. Bottom line — no body wants to be considered “black” so to intermarry with other nations is the doing away with the race and the perpetuation of racism and colorism within the race. (which I have lived with within my own family)

    All that’s happen throughout the four corners of the world is no diffferent, it has been predicted and what we see is that which has happened:

    Check out scriptures in Deut. 28 and the apocrypha 1Maccabees 1:41 (this is the king Antiochus speaking to keep Israel away from keeping their laws — the law of God)

20. I personally won’t loose much sleep over blue , and green eye bandits ,other local French Creoles, and those of similar ilks , as they can very well take care of themselves socially, economically and even politically by simply calling on the name of an old money former slave rapist great grand ,and grand father and whalla! Money is no problem, land is no problem , jobs are no problem , elite education that leads to upward mobility is no problem .
    The folks I am in sympathy with according to esteemed social psychologist Dr . Deosaran and other educational luminaries are the fastest rising demographic group in Trinidad and Tobago and perhaps entire Caribbean with the exception of perhaps Guyana. These are- drum roll please- our Dougla population. With all this so call hatred that Afro Trinis and Indo Trinis allegedly holds for each other , my question is why is that group expanding at such an tremendous rate? Yes . We know many of the concerned community leaders enjoy crying rape occasionally when a young lady choose to defy a family derective with respect to intermingling with an un influential member of the African caste.
    The problem with folks from the African Diaspora is that they have this profound childish desire to be loved and appreciated by other races and ethnicities for some strange reasons. They want to be Christian, Hindus, Muslim , Buddhist , Protestants, Confucians , and every conceivable religion on the globe except anything that looks like Africans. Europeans and other freak races brain washed them into believing that they were ugly because they possess big butts, thick lips , broad nose, dark skin and kinky hair. The result of this is ? Yes, take self loathing to the highest panicle and spend every energy to distort natural images and confuse future generations of children by joining other races that despise every African and descendants across the globe , except the ones that are millionaires. How tragic?
    The enslave descendants of Trinidad and Guyana are the most comical when it comes to this battle with Hindus . Let me break it down once more for the edification of naïve fellow nationals and neighbors across the Caribbean . Listen folks , Hindus do not really hate you as you might believe as many are too busy trying to advance the welfare of themselves and family to be worried about Africans unless they are standing in the way of them achieving such objectives.
    The majority of our Indo friends are descendents of lower caste folks from India that experienced discrimination themselves before migrating as indentured laborers to Trinidad and Guyana. Since many kept there culture, it is natural that most would want to practice such and might look down upon others that they deem beneath them socially and economically.
    Now if Afro Caribbean folks were smart they’ll use that to their advantage to dismissed stupid myths about African successes and domination because their political fortunes appear to be better through the decades due to Afro leaders holding political power.
    It is not racist to love yourselves, and seek ways to empower others from within your group particularly when the majority of your own descendents are at the bottom of the food chain , and hardly gained anything substantial even after years of so called political domination in both countries. Always pay attention to who holds real economic power, and remember political power does not necessarily translate to economic power , especially when you were unfortunate to have the likes of blood sucking leaches like Eric Williams, George Chambers , Patrick Manning, NAR Robinson, Forbes Burnham , Green and Hoyte to ride you since independence from conniving British colonial crooks in both countries .

21. Good God! You people in Trinidad are still living in the stone ages? Get a hold of yourself and step into the modern era. Racism is dying world-wide and will be gone in a couple of generations. Loosen-up!

22. Further — when you treat a person not as an individual, but with some group lable, you are in fact a racist. There are good individuals and there are those that lack understanding or are ignorant, in ALL races and communities. Using labels such as Hindu, Black, African, Indian, Brahmin to predict behavior is racist.

    As far as Hindu Brahmins are concerned, how about Nehru and Indira Gandhi. They were both Hindu Brahmins but did not have a racist bone in them. It was them and great leaders such as Mahatma Gandhi that led India to freedom and laid the foundations for all opressed communities to be free — even those in Trinidad.

    I myself am a Hindu but my best friend are African Americans, as are those of my sons. Martin Luther King was my great hero. There are millions of such examples. So please, please, please — give us this infantile prejudices — regardless of what community you belong to.

23. “As far as Hindu Brahmins are concerned, how about Nehru and Inderia Gandhi. They were both Hindu Brahmins but did not have a racist bone in them.” Good point Mohan, but not totally important if they did or not.
    The fundamental questions that should be asked instead are these: Were the lives of the millions of lower caste untouchables in that country enhanced by the end of the stewardship of the son and daughter rule? Are some correct in alluding that Mahatma Gandhi , used that neglected group when he offered false hope , then abandoned them when it was politically expedient later ?
    What role did they play in ensuring the total subjugation of other ethnic clans in the country such as Millions of Muslims and Sheiks?
    Did the primarily low cast indentured immigrants that came to Trinidad take on the persona of the Hindu elites once they landed on the shores of South Africa Sri Lanka, Trinidad, Fuji, Kenya, Uganda, T&T, and Guyana?
    We should continue to be honest by giving revisionism a rest and examine the proof in the pudding as we eat – good friends. Never know where it might lead in terms of political and social catharsis.
    “Snake in the Balisa , and dey biting hard.Snake in the Balisa , problems for Trinidad.
    Sing Shadow.

24. I myself am a Hindu but my best friend are African Americans, as are those of my sons. Martin Luther King was my great hero. There are millions of such examples. So please, please, please — give us this infantile prejudices — regardless of what community you belong to.

    ###################################################################

    Since no where in this thread is there the suggestion that all Indians are racist, using this as a justification for your post is more than a mite disingenuous. And this “I have a black friend” prefix or suffix to arguments about race has become a facetious cliche.

    If one examines this board they will find a whole bunch of racist stereotyping of blacks without a retort or murmur from those who become angsty when anyone comment about racial prejudice by some Indians. No sooner is this comment made, and we are scolded about the ills of prejudice and the need for us to love one another.

    How come that lofty sentiment never surfaces when people post about black people being thieves, and blatant innuendos that Manning is soft on crime because he is black and the criminals are black. I am tired already with this pattern of insulting people’s intelligence.

25. As far as Neal’s post is concerned, it is so full of factual inaccuracies that I will not bother to respond to it. Sheiks? Does he even know what that means? Regardless of what you say the fact remains that Hinduism and India are the most tolerant religion nd country. Still — there is enormous room for improvement.

    Now as far as the above comment from Ruel — dear friend, I am not scolding anyone! And what I say is directed at Indians and Blacks both!! Indians, Blacks, Whites, Greens — must all stop being racist. Why identify with any label? Any such label only diminishes you. The whole world — the WHOLE WORLD belongs to you. Sooner or later, this is the future.

    Love all beings for all are Divine …

26. Dog gone it Mohan , you are more determine than a in- heat female Pit-bull crossed with a Doberman , and a deranged British bulldog ,when it comes to this subject.
    In light of the recent dehumanizing tragedy in John John re young Tecia Henry, one would think that- like a tolerant Hindu yourself- you’ll have a little empathy and join fellow bloggers in outpouring some sympathy for the plight of our numerous innocent children across the nation that are loosing their lives daily at the hands of low life degenerates , vagabonds, monsters, and unconscionable miscreants. That is where we are mistaken , for cousin Mohan has a bigger more important concern – pushing the merits of Hinduism, and grammatical nitpicking ,by providing spelling lessons for yours truly.
    Thanks for your tip nevertheless .
    Let me however ensure that I fully comprehend your point. Hinduism is the most tolerant religion in the world , and India as a country has demonstrated this quite well since independence to minority ethnic clans such as Sikhs, Muslims ,Christians , and millions of poor desperate low caste untouchables.
    I would not disagree with you with regard to Hinduism’s tolerance ,in much the say way I’ll support the argument that Islam , Judaism , Buddhism ,and Christianity, are tolerant religions. It is always the practitioners that one should be concern about unfortunately.
    Historically, India’s Indira Gandhi- the sterilization Queen- did make some missteps in her dealings and hash treatment of the Sikh community in Punjab , and for that she paid a sad price with her life. Her son Rajiv also made mistakes ,and he too paid the ultimate price in Sri Lanka . http://www.ceeby.com/people/IndiraGandhi.cfm

    The country however redeemed itself by handing over stewardship to the PM Manmohan Singh, an economist , and member of the Sikh community , and for that they should be commended , as perhaps any semblance of meaningful progress the country has made since 2004 might be attributed to him.

27. So, some have suggested that since the lower-caste Indian indentured immigrants were oppressed and racially discriminated against by Indian elites, their descendants now wish to oppress and racially discriminate against others, so this explains racism in Trinidad.
    Hmmmm……
    The African slaves were kidnapped, beaten, robbed, raped, abused, tortured and murdered by their Spanish and British masters. If we apply the same logic…does this explain crime in Trinidad?

28. One other point, everyone…….
    Africans in TT are in a unique position as the ONLY victims of the biggest crime against humanity in the past 500 years: the Atlantic slave trade.
    Who are the other groups? Descendants of the British, French, Portuguese, Germans, Syrians, Chinese, Lebanese and of course East Indians, among others.
    Out of all the non-enslaved groups, I might guess that the Indians may have the lowest socioeconomic status!
    At present, 2 of TT’s 3 main business conglomerates are dominated by Syrian and White Trinidadians. The Syrian and White populations may be small, but their economic power is disproportionate to their small size.
    Some pieces of evidence of East Indian racism and domination include their representation in the business community and professions, their tendency to marry spouses of the same race more often than would occur if selection were random and racially unbiased, and their tendency to employ family members in family businesses.
    OK, condemn Indians for these things and label them as Trindad’s racial oppressor elite class. But would you say that the White, Chinese and Syrian populations are not comparable to East Indians in these respects? Why do they seem to get a free pass when anyone is talking race? Or are they also innocent victims of Indian oppression?

29. “Racism is the belief that a particular race is superior or inferior to another, that a person’s social and moral traits are predetermined by his or her inborn biological characteristics. Racial separatism is the belief, most of the time based on racism, that different races should remain segregated and apart from one another.” http://www.adl.org/hate-patrol/racism.asp

    Ravi said ,“Some pieces of evidence of East Indian racism and domination include their representation in the business community and professions, their tendency to marry spouses of the same race more often than would occur if selection were random and racially unbiased, and their tendency to employ family members in family businesses.”
    Pay close attention to the above definition , and ask yourself cousin R ,which group approximates such activities in Sweet , Sweet T&T aka Rainbow country.

    Now we know why you and political advocates so favor the Privy Council as the final legal body for justice , as well as aim for the destruction of the Caribbean Court of Appeal. It is only that former August and anachronistic body would agree with you that East Indians are victims of racism and discrimination in Trinidad and Tobago ,after your well crafted outline of behavioral practices that are in keeping with the norm for large segments of that population at the expense chiefly of Afro Trinidadian rivals.
    I historical accounts are mixed as to what occurred in Guyana, Fiji, Sri Lanka, East Africa, and South Africa through the decades . What I do know however with regard to my country is as follows :- East Indians are on par in terms of equality with every other racial or ethnic group , and in numerous cases dominated various sectors of our country’s social, political, and economic life, even while attempting to falsely claim to be victims of racial discrimination by some phantom Afro Trinidadian political elite. It is almost laughable , if it was not such a serious matter.
    The facts would indicate in in reality, that this latter’s success were simply due to the fact that they were simply more savvy politically.
    Now it is not too difficult to understand the ludicrous acclamations especially if it emanates from some old school , and often angry, illiterate individual in their nineties still reeling from the aftereffects of the British masters of hate colonial system.
    It becomes a bit more unpalatable when the proponents of this deliberate falsehoods -led by the likes of cousin Ravi -are modern , intelligent folks , that obviously knows the negative consequences for such follies, especially at our critical when team work for nation building are needed. Do you know anywhere in Trinidad where activities as indicated by the under mentioned link occurs in Sweet, T&T Ravi? Let me know if you will. I’ll personally sacrifice my time and energy to flush them out, and flush and where possible drown them in the Caura, or Caroni river. Just kidding.
    http://www.bet.com/News/News_RaceInAmerica_KKK_Raises_Ugly_Head_in_Tennessee.htm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

30. Hi Neal
    Judging by your response, I’m not sure I got my point across clearly.
    I was NOT talking about alleged discrimination against East Indians.
    I was talking about racism practised BY East Indians.

    I was simply trying to make the point: East Indians are (perhaps rightly) criticized for allegedly dominating business sectors, employing relatives in family businesses, and marrying their own ethnic kind more often than not. As far as I can see, many White, Syrian and Chinese Trinidadians are doing similar things but are not being called out as racist. Why not?

Comments are closed.