70 thoughts on “China Offers Caribbean $6 Billion in Loans”

1. Are you serious? “The level of intermarriage between Chinese and other ethnic groups is an indication of their pragamtic,unbigotted, attitude to life in general.”- Ivor St Hill. Massa slept with his slaves and fathered millions of children and it didn’t make him less bigotted or more pragmatic. The same goes for Pharoah or any other human rights violater in power over another person. Even the most biggotted and racist man will have sex with a woman that does not share his culture or race when no one is looking or around to enforce cultural standards. The quote means nothing.
   I am not endorsing any other voodoo or theories on the subject. I am speaking about what has been plainly documented from media outlets from around the world. We aren’t talking about 22 out of thousands, but rather the potential for hundreds of thousands who have the potential to further divide the social fabric of the nation without assimilating to the basic overall social fabric of the country which has all of us regardless of race labeled as Trinibagonian in any othe nation. If this loan turns into the arrival of hundreds of thousand Chinese workers, what will that do for us? If this loan turns into bad policy of a one sided government, how does that effect us?
   That is reasonable fear based on real world events in our lifetime.
   What chance do any of you have of coming out on top when it is all said and done considering that you are dealing with a nation who believes that the Han have the best way of life in the world? The Han will not concede to others at any level unless there is some sort of strategy to win on some other level.
   I would never say don’t try to improve ones self, but we must be careful. The writing is on the wall.

2. “The level of intermarriage between Chinese and other ethnic groups is an indication of their pragamtic,unbigotted, attitude to life in general.”
   Don’t we hate it guys, when folks like brother Ivor ,tries too desperately, to pull the wools over our eyes , aka present to us a 6 for a 9 , because he assumed that we are not in tuned with socially destructive , cultural foibles of others bearing gifts in 2011 ?
   Even today ,Chinese ,as a rule ,do not interact ,with any South Asians , much less Afrikans , unless they are holding 6 figure incomes, or possess positions of real influence, and significant power, that they in turn, can benefit from.
   Do you doubt me on this folks , then ask Patrick Manning buddy, Calder Hart ,and Malaysian-born Chinese wife ,Soh Wah Lee aka Sherrine Khan /Hart , and the rest we can say is Indo Trini , Central businessman Khan, Chicken farm history , a la ,divorce his butt ,once I get my citizenship, and all my families to rip off T&T, left right and center, then , in true gold digging fashion , on to the next prey, de Canadian crook.
   Historically , there is only one group of people, that Chinese gravitate to in terms of relationships ,at the drop of a hat , and that’s, …. you guess it , Caucasians, and Trinidad was definitely a fine example of this.
   We expected better than this from Ivor ,seriously. A few low end field workers ,may have hung around for sexual release ,initially with a few low caste Trini ex slaves, and Indentured laborers , while awaiting a wife from the mainland ,but my friend , that does not make them unbigoted , as you claim ,in the least- maybe pragmatic . I’ll give you that.
   I’ll add, calculating. Hopefully we can convince, our government not to get too deep into bed with these guys,no matter how noble their overtures, as the stupud blokes before did not recognize , well anything , good riddance , thank you very much Patios.
   The fact that neo imperial Euro savages, such as France, America, England, and USSR/Russia ,would slice you up into mince meat, and fry you for tea, break fast ,and dinner ,while stealing all your resources, then abandon you ,and the Chinese in contrast ,would smother , drown , and eat you whole , does not mean that you would not die ,at the hands of a similar greedy , destructive barbarian , if not careful.
   Mind you it’s not a knock on my Chinese brothers ,and sisters , but a testament to their suaveness. Now if only our less docile nation could find us a Mao. Just Kidding!

3. “If this loan turns into the arrival of hundreds of thousand Chinese workers, what will that do for us?” ……. Help us regain our economic position relative to Singapore? Perhaps?

   1. It’s one thing to be trained by foreign nationals, but replaced is something all together different and in excusable. I doubt that any reasonable Trini wants his/her country to become Singapore but rather it’s own economically stable version of itself.
      The fact of the matter is that if there were hundreds of thousands of Chinese workers to arrive in TNT, society as yo have ever known it would be gone forever. It would be a cultural genocide. Then again, one would have to respect the bond that currently unites Trinbagonians today an yesterday to understand the potentially catostrophic social ramifications of turning ones back on homegrown Trinibagonians.
      Yes, teach us to fish, but please don’t own all of the fishing vessels and leave us with unmotorized and holy canoes.

4. Let us never forget that unless we are of the first people, of whose tribal names we are not sure and is the subject of deep scholarly enquiry, whose language is no longer spoken, and whose only marks on this land are the palce names that, even today, are being eradicated; unless we are of them, then we are ALL “INTERLOPERS”. Who decided that “Interloping” must end? and when? By what process have we become “valid natives”.

   1. Not so fast Mr. St Hill:

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/430944.stm

   2. Independence from England. Who was in the country at that point? They and their decendents decide what is good for the nation.
      If you really want to define intelopers, they we could point to all of mankind. Everyones ancestors at some point migrated to somewhere from somewhere and eventually claimed land, created laws and existed withing organised societies and nation states including what we now recognize as Han. So what are you talking about?
      Just because TNT is a new nation doesn’t disqualify TNT from validating who should and should not live in TNT and on what grounds should they be welcomed.

5. Mr. St. Hill, that was then. When the Chinese are afraid of their gene pool dying out, they marry whoever is available. I have that on good authority of a Chinese descended person who has written a book about the Chinese in the western hemisphere To die without offspring, is to disapear, so they will marry to create children. However, when a African immigran’t daughter entered a beauty pageant in China two years ago, she was riduculled for being too black and ugly, and was booed by the audience at the pageant.
   I would be a little wary of their wilingness to intermary. Their men do. The daughters should marry good Chinese men. In that they are similar to all other groups willing to sow their seeds between the legs of an African woman, but if an African man comes courting their daughter, hell still breaks loose. The world is racist in its perspective. It/we cannot help ourselvess. When I think of a grandaughter, I thik of a beautiful honey, chocolate or caramel coloured girl with tons of wolly hair, a mini-me. I do not think of a Chiinese, European or Indian granddaughter. When the other realities present themselves, I deal with themlovingly. All the chldren of our family re beautiful.

6. Is it the Chinese at fault or the attitudes and behaviors host countries leadership?

   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/capricorn/7218453.stm

7. 2bn dollars produced from diamond mining in Botswana.

   http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7260000/newsid_7265500/7265584.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&bbcws=1

8. Chinese technology is more advanced than the US’s, what chance do poor countries have? its like the goernment of TnT negotiating with BP, Shell, Mittal Steel.The more technologically savy always come out on top.

9. You’re wrong; Chinese technology isn’t more advanced than the U.S. The problem it that to few Americans are smart enough to realize that their tax dollars fund the innovations made by multi-national corporations that then turn around and lease the patents to the Chinese for maximum profit.

   All the new technologies being developed in China by Chinese cheap labor were invented by North American and European workers, who sign waivers for their innovations as part of their employment contracts.

10. And that is smart technology. Right now, Uncle Sam is in a bind. China holds most of its debt, and has boosted itself into a position of being the broker of the Greek crisis. Their attitude is, why spend money on research when someone else has already done that? However, their “”Bird Nest” stadium for the 2008 Olympics, left even the US breathless. They have been at it, moving forward, for 5000 years. The country is run by a panel of fifteen engineers, some educated in Britain and Germany, some in the US, some at home, all moving forward towards a “Greater China”.

11. “The country is run by a panel of fifteen engineers, some educated in Britain and Germany, some in the US, some at home, all moving forward towards a “Greater China”.”

    There is something to be said for achieving that kind of homogeneity. True story; while still a kid in T&T I participated in an exercise that asked if you could be another race which would it be: I picked Chinese.

    Ofcourse now as an adult I would be insulted if anyone would ask me such a question but maybe as a kid I had a Borg mentality.

    1. Chinese is not a race, but discription of people from the nation of China.

12. It’s funny that I’m not from Africa or any nation in Africa but where ever I go I’m an African first.

    1. You may be an African first, but people aren’t talking about what country that you come from. There is a difference between nationality, ethnicity and race. If we can’t understand that, perhaps we should not comment on the subject. Knowledge is free to all who have a computer.

13. Here is some knowledge for you:

    Before there was Ch’in[a] there was a Qin Dynasty and before there was a Qin Dynasty there was a Qin Clan. In case you didn’t know most nations are named for a Human founder; its the natural progression of so-called civilization. It begins with a family and thus the family name. Even if you’re adopted you’re still culturally the same. Last I checked Mongoloid is out of use and Asia is a continent with genetically different humanoids.

    1. This argument is petty, but I will continue. Zhongguo was not named after the Qin Dynasty or clan. There are many regions in Zhongguo (Center Nation A.K.A. China) that were unified under what we know as China/ Zhongguo.
       If you are adopted, you could be culturally the same. I cannot argue that. However, if a person from Trinidad is adopted before he or she can grasp Trinidadian Culture, and are raised by Americans in lets say North Dakota, that person will not be culturally Trinidadian. You could say that for any person.
       If that confuses you, perhaps I should use a Pakistani as an example. A Pakistani baby adopted by Ameicans in Idaho at birth will not be Culturally Pakistani.
       Since we were talking about China, lets be clear that there are more than one race of people living in China who are Chinese. The Han are the majority, but they are not the only ethnicity in China. The are the majority of the Chinese population.

       1. You’re quite correct it’s petty because you do not have a point. A Paki is a Paki whether he is in England or America or Pakistan and before the “separation” he was Indian and when the Greeks discovered them they were Eastern Cushites/Kushites; but they have never been and will never be assumed to be Chinese. Chinese is Chinese whether he is in mainland China, America’s Chinatown, England’s Chinatown, or Trinidad; for the same reason I’m assumed to be African, they’re genetically the same. Maybe you need to become more familiar with the Human Y Chromosome. For the record is there an American race? I’m nor sure what you’re implying with this statement “Most of the world as I know it agrees that generally speaking there are Africans, Asians, Europeans, Americans, and Aboriginees.”

14. The etymology of race:

    “The word “race”, interpreted to mean common descent, was introduced into English in about 1580, from the Old French rasse (1512), from Italian razza, which may have been derived from the Arabic Word “ras” “رأس” meaning the head of someone or something. In this context, “ras” points to the root or the head of selected species. The etymology can be further traced back to Latin gens or Arabic “genat” “جينات” meaning clan, stock or people and genus meaning birth, descent, origin, race, stock, or family, and cognate with Greek genos (γένος) “race, kind,” and gonos “birth, offspring, stock […].”[1] This late origin for the English and French terms is consistent with the thesis that the concept of “race” as defining a small number of groups of human beings based on lineage dates from the time of Christopher Columbus. Older concepts, which were also based at least partly on common descent, such as nation and tribe entail a much larger number of groupings.

    During the Age of Enlightenment, Europeans tried to define race as a biological concept, in keeping with their scientific ideas. In the centuries that followed, scholars made attempts to classify and define racial types, and to determine racial origins and correlates. As forensic anthropologists, biomedical researchers, and other scholars have collected and analyzed data on individuals and populations, some maintain that race denotes scientifically practical distinctions.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_race_concepts

    1. Wow, we are reduced to wikipedia for our source of information. Scholars don’t accept that as a legitimate source of information.
       Most of the world as I know it agrees that generally speaking there are Africans, Asians, Europeans, Americans, and Aboriginees. Within these groups there are or have been various ethinic groups.
       Ethnicity, culture, and race are three different things. I have family members that are the same race, but are of different culural and ethnic groups.
       I have Friends from China, but not all of them share the same race or ethnicity.
       Every nation has a different origin, but almost all nations have people from various ethnic, racial, and cultural backgrounds. Which ones don’t? The majority of the nations in the world have multiple races that make up thhe social fabric of that nation which makes it all but immpossible to describe a person by their nation of origin and mean thier race as the same thing. China is one of those nations.

       1. By the way; anything the Corporate Pirates can’t make a profit from is considered il-legitimate; that’s why the world is stuck with Edison’s electric power distribution system and not Tesla’s.

15. The writing is on the wall. In TNT Indians and Chinese will rule the nation. Where does that leave everyone else? Everyone is smiling and pretending to be in a win/win situation, but the writing is on the wall. Sure, there won’t be an announcement signaling the take over, but it has already begun. TNT is ready for takeover or to be handed away. People better stop liming and pretending to be New Yorkers or yankee gangsters. They may find themselves without a home, land and even more important, rights.

16. Trade Africa: Myths about China and India’s Africa race
    by Anil K. Gupta and Haiyan Wang

    “During 2000-2010, Africa’s merchandise trade with China grew at an annual rate of 29 percent (from $9 billion to $119 billion) and with India at an annual rate of 18 percent (from $7 billion to $35 billion). While these growth rates are very robust, they are building on a very low base. So far, Africa’s economic partnership with Europe dominates that with China or India. In 2010, Europe received 36 percent of Africa’s exports, compared with 13 percent for China and 4 percent for India. Over 37 percent of Africa’s total imports came from Europe, vs. 12 percent from China and 3 percent from India. In 2010, even the U.S. was ahead of China in terms of total merchandise trade with Africa.

    To date, China and India also have played only a small, albeit growing, role in terms of capital investment in Africa. Each accounts for less than 5 percent of the total inbound foreign direct investment (FDI) stock in Africa, a tiny fraction of that from Europe and the U.S.

    In short, as newly active players, China and India are making rapid headway in Africa. However, appearances notwithstanding, they are still far behind the developed economies—especially Europe—in terms of economic engagement with Africa.”

    http://www.tradeafricablog.com/2011/09/myths-about-china-and-indias-africa.html

17. “A hospital in Luanda, the capital of Angola, was opened with great fanfare but cracks appeared in the walls within a few months and it soon closed. The Chinese-built road from Lusaka, Zambia’s capital, to Chirundu, 130km (81 miles) to the south-east, was quickly swept away by rains.”

    http://www.economist.com/node/18586448

    So I was having this conversation, with a NigerianReal Estate businessman, in Zoo York yesterday, and so happened to breach my concerns ,re these sudden overtures by our resource craving ,Chinese , alleged friends ,in my neck of the woods, a la de Caribbean , but more specifically, T&T, aka ‘Jambalaya /Callaloo Country ,’ a country, I wish to still ,against reason, refer to as home, if none democratic ,political barbarians, and typically selfish, greedy, local business vultures ,ain’t finally achieve their deep rooted wish ,of destroying same.
    “We know for a fact , I said, that fake capitalist China ,with their historical penchant for shoddy , substandard work, and non concerns for globally accepted regulations,have repeatedly wrecked havoc on their own docile people, be it in health affairs , construction, transport , etc, but pray tell,how are things on the Virgin Continent relationship-wise, where some 1 billion people, accustom with , and very perturb ,by traditional , lifetime racist ,Imperialist Europeans , along with their Norte Americana cousin’s practices ,as well as the condescending , discriminatory habits , by self serving ,South Asians ,or Arabs business mongrels?”
    “Well , he responded, let’s just say , that it just ain’t too pretty , as described.” ” Do you know that in Nigeria alone, they constructed some 19 bridges , but over the past five years, some 9 ,crumbled, with no consequences?”
    “Are you serious , I ask, aware of corruption on the West African fiefdom?”
    “Yes indeed,” he said, “but not only that , they treat locals like idiots,and mostly employ their own .”
    “Let me give you a story,” he added. “About 2 years ago while traveling through my country on holiday, I saw an intriguing sight , which had me fuming. I happened to glance at a construction sight , along the highway, and saw one of my people holding an umbrella to shade a Chinese man , one can assume was his boss. This forced me to stop my car, and demand that he quit doing such , immediately.Of course I was nearly arrested for so doing ,” he mused.
    “Food for thought,” I murmured, thinking how fortunate we are in T&T, to have less unscrupulous , corrupt leaders,who would instead demand ,higher standards, but more importantly ,a savvy working population , that would not settle for 4th class citizenship relations , simply because they are desperate for a ‘lil bit oh work?’
    Then , one can be wrong. Ahhhhh, de challenge of sustainable development, and or , nation building , within the Global South , ehhhhh Curtis/ karibkween?
    Let’s wish our people well.

18. Much like the nature of the African continent; the African people will never be tamed:

    Many small manufacturers in Africa not only survive but thrive in imperfect environments. To maintain shoe production, Fut Conceptus Manufacturing Nigeria Ltd. runs four electric generators, at a cost of $500 in fuel a day. The chronic power outages have scared off bigger Chinese shoemakers and allowed Fut Conceptus to build up a brand in west Africa, according to Olumide Wole-Madariola, the factory’s 44-year-old Nigerian founder. It makes men’s moccasins and ladies’ sandals out of Nigerian leather that used to be sold only abroad.

    “Nobody was ready for what we were doing,” says Mr. Wole-Madariola. “Nobody was ready for “Made in Nigeria.”

    Messrs. McCollum and Beach ran up $97,000 in credit-card debt and borrowed heavily from friends and got a substantial investment from Prosperity Equity Partners, a Cape Town, South Africa, venture capital fund, to get the company off the ground. Mr. Beach bought a nonrefundable ticket to Madagascar in March 2009 to search for a factory that could make chocolate.
    He arrived in the capital, Antananarivo, just in time for Madagascar’s military to overthrow the democratically elected president. From his hotel room, Mr. Beach said he heard street protests and the pop of rubber bullets.
    Back home in Brooklyn, would-be investors weren’t impressed. Nobody dared commit capital to a plan that seemed more an altruistic adventure than a business.
    “First red flag was that we were in Africa. Second was when we told people there had just been a coup,” recalls Mr. McCollum of his meetings with potential investors.
    But during his trip to Madagascar, Mr. Beach engineered a coup of his own. He found a local contract manufacturer, chocolatier Shahin Cassam Chenai, who understood the company’s direction.
    The new partners developed odd but evocative combinations of chocolate bars: pink pepper and citrus, among others. In the U.S, the bars retailed for about $6 each.
    As production took off, Madécasse convinced big retailers, such as Whole Foods Markets, to peddle its bars. Last year, the company’s sales more than doubled to $480,000 from $200,000 in 2009.
    But success in the U.S. came with setbacks in Africa. In their absence from Madagascar, Messrs. Beach and McCollum said they discovered an employee had embezzled cash and sold their cacao to other buyers. The company lost about $15,000, they said.

    “It was quite a blow,” admits the 36-year-old Mr. Beach.

    Not many African manufacturers are so ready for the global economy. Mthuli Ncube, chief economist at the African Development Bank Group, estimates that one-quarter of Africa’s gross domestic product—about $450 billion—comes from 65 million small and medium-sized enterprises. But the contribution from manufacturers is tougher to measure; many are tiny cottage factories that sell goods in open-air bazaars to avoid paying tax.”

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904060604576570541250028496.html?mod=world_newsreel%20

19. I’ve got two female Yoruba friends, bothe professionals who headed home to Nigeria once America’s economy collapsed, and they’re doing quite well. Africa for Africans.

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