By Stephen Kangal
November 06, 2015
The reason, inter alia, advanced by the Moonilal “Go Kamla” Team including that of Dr. Tim Gopeesingh for the defeat of the PP in the 2015 elections and hence the current lobbying for rejection of Kamla for re-election to the Political Leadership of the UNC, is that the unprecedented, untried and untested Presidential style campaign strategy engineered by Campaign Manager, Rodney Charles, that made Kamla 2015 the focal point and dominated the PP election campaign strategy was flawed and did not resonate with nor did the electorate buy into it. This convenient thesis goes against the dynamics of the elections, is far off the target and would give the stamp of objectivity/ issues-based politics underpinning the final tally.
I hold the view that this is a total misrepresentation of the explanation for the PP’s failure to retain government in the elections of 2015 having regard to the following factors:
- Analysis of the electoral history from 1986 to 2015 elections;
- The factor of race/tribalism cleavages manifested in the election results- determination process of 2015 and perceived PNM ownership of T&T deeply held and practiced;
- Illegal collusion between the EBC and the PNM before the very noses of the PP’s Government;
- The effects of the extension of the voting to 7 p.m. only in Trinidad favourable to the PNM and requested by them (Colm Imbert’s post-election statement);
- Had Kamla brought down political nirvana and heaven unto the landscape on T&T in 2010-15 as she almost did relatively speaking, the result was going to be the same taking into account the pattern established in factor 1 above;
- The Jack factor in the 2013 Chaguanas West bye-election, the St. Joseph bye-election, the Local Government elections and Sandy’s race solidarity appeal in the THA elections cannot be ignored.
Post 1986 the NAR (seen as a first Indian Gov’t) was obliterated from the map in the 1991 and PNM (Black Government) restored to governance under Manning. Panday (an Indian Government) elected in 1995 with ANR two Tobago seats. In 2000 Panday re-elected but de-selected by ANR in 2001 tie. In 2007 PNM benefitted from the COP vote-splitting role but dethroned by Indian Government (PP) in 2010. In 2015 the Indian Government (PP) is seen as and treated electorally as a one-term Indian outfit that happened in 1991, 2001 and 2015. The 2015 results fall into this pattern of election results and Kamla 2015 did stop this trend the socio- psycho-political reasons for which are obvious but space does not permit the discussions.
Race and the 2015 Elections
It is my view that racial considerations play a pivotal role in the elections-determination process. It was very much the determining and deciding factor in 2015 resulting in the restoration of the PNM to governance. Kamla 2015 was only a façade- easy target- not the deciding factor at all. Since Sandy consecrated the race intonation with his Calcutta ship, Tobago has gone all red, TOP annihilated, PNM on the rise in Trinidad and the country solidly polarized. Had Kamla brought down political nirvana and heaven unto the landscape on T&T in 2010-15 as she almost did relatively speaking, the result was going to be the same taking into account the pattern established in the ascendant factor.
Kamla and the PP had to be always twice right to be right whereas the PNM only has to be half-right with abundant meaningless sound -bites signifying nothing but still preferable.
The Jack Factor
The Jack factor post the Chaguanas bye-election contributed to the dwindling to the House of the Rising Sun and manifested itself in serious vote splitting in the St. Joseph bye-election and the Local Government elections in the boroughs of Chaguanas and Tunapuna aided and abetted by the PR Aldermen-determining criteria of 25% that back-fired in favour of the PNM.
A three month campaign was ill timed and foolish, especially when the PP candidates were announced three weeks before voting day. A 30 day election campaign would have yielded a different result.
The “No Rowley” campaign was also repetitive, excessive and prolonged, especially when polls revealed that the public was tired of it.
The PNM waged an extensive cyber fear campaign using social media to access their electorate and to create doubt in the minds of the swing voters. They inundated social media with misinformation regarding anti- Hindu propaganda and the evils of Indian domination, attributing motives of Indian domination and prejudice. They were not courageous enough to do this on campaign platforms.
The PNM also blitzed social media and campaign platforms with numerous exaggerated claims of PP corruption, all unsubstantiated.
Kangal is right! It is not Kamla’s stalepisspoor leadership that is responsible for the UNCOPP losing the election…..It’s THE African !(Rodney Charles)….acting completely on his own! See what happens when “we” give dem rawan responsibility?Rawan is for heavy lifting & window dressing!
The UNC’s election loss was not because of the campaign strategy that was only a few weeks long, or of the voting time extension as they want us to believe, it was because of their five year long reign of ridicule.
The population had five long years to see their performance and make up its mind. One hour extension of election time – hogwash. Personally, my mind was made up after Reshmi.
Frontsman…you & every other right thinking, non-racist made up their minds about kamla after Reshmi. The UNC is filing the petition, is to leave a psycholocgical stain on the electorate’s memory of how PNM came into office. This has always been the flavour of indian politics in T&T, guyana etc. Because of theie religious belief that invalidates dark skinned & african people from being in Leadership, they (indian opposition) have always sought to funnel that religious belief through political & legal ideology/jargon so as to PACIFY it (anti black ideology) & feed it to the electorate. Since 1956 the claim was that Bhadas Sagan Maharaj (Sat’s illiterate, organized crime boss, rabid, hateful, racist Father-in-Law) should have been T&T’s Premier…he & the unc’s political decendents never used to even Try to win or sway african voters. They never ecen wanted african in the organization & said so publicly (H.P. Singh) Anyway, there was always the call that PNM tief the elections & OR as kamla’s ridiculous UNC spin….since there is like 40% of the voting list that doesn’t vote…Kamla & unc adds that figure to their racist support base & says that “more” people did NOT vote for pnm than did vote for them soooòoooo “PNM is a ‘minority’ government!!!”
These are groen men & women saying these things PUBLICLY!… and you have 340,000 supporters of THAT! Sooooo They will say & do ANYTHING to get back in office as their corrupt,racist, narrow minded supporters have given them an 18 seat, golden seal of approval 2 months ago. If the UNC were to organize a 1990… (again)…those same supporters will back it….just like the past 5 years they will FEIGN quiet, private outrage but will secretly & communally support it.
The white man saw death, rape and brutal murder of over 30 million people in WWII. They wiped out the native Indians and rape thousands giving phyphillis and Gonoreah to these people. To date every war that endangers humanity is a product of white aggression. Selling arms the US is the number one culprit. Millions of innocent souls are everyday slaughtered by bombs dropped from massive machines of war.
The black man is no different, Sudan has a 20 year war that saw over 2,000,000 dead. Uganda gave rise to Amin who slaughtered 500,000. The most dictators and rapist the world has known comes out of Africa. South Africa, Congo are the rape capitals of the world today. In the US the black population is 19% and occupy 50% of the jail. Gangs along with single parenting is littered across the Caribbean with Jamaica leading the charge of 60% single parents. In TNT the criminals using guns are overwhelmingly black boys according to the Ryan report.
For people like Alyssa all she have to boast about is the colour of her skin. The statistics bears out differently that it is nothing to boast about…. Rather it is to weep about.
Lol…mamoo…thank you….”..all she have to…”
my contribution to this blog is fulfilled..this is moomoo’s true self…notice how far out to sea you’ve come to “get alyssa”..?? That’s where i want you….not smug on the beach sipping maitais & making snug remarks!…jack is out of the box…can’t be put back…good night folks
Sad to say that is you talk about on this board. Stay here long enough and Mamoo will educate you on the finer things in life luv…
And that’s all you got from the article?
PP corruption is substantiated and well documented. It is so extensive that the public’s fear of this group will force it out of existence. PP came to power without a platform and really didn’t know how to make Trinidad and Tobago prosperous. So they settled for self-enrichment.To position PP as the lesser of two evils is not the way to go. It’s better to contest the very serious charges of corruption and offer the population a plan for economic growth and shared prosperity.
http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/blog/?p=5793
Remember this?
The never changing cycle of politics in Trinidad and we have not even touched on Tobago corruption.
Remember who made the allegations? Lol..Kamla & the rest of the 40 have no credibility. They made accusations of spying then used that as a justification to disable the border protection apparatus as well as slander nigel clement & african security officials so Hi dus could be in charge if all high profile spy agencies.Give me a break! Remember the “only 7% indian” getting scholarship? What a nasty spin!….You trying to tell me ALL of the top state sponsored scholarships go to hindus & indians free open scholarships to all over the world where the average cost of one ivy league or oxford tuition is a minimum of 2.5 million…a single student..and all you could spin on pnm in 8 years of office is 50 million scholarship for 93% “non indians” that is worth 25 open schols at best! But it wasn’t was it? Hundreds of people got a fraction of tuition costs…what about the hindu amputee scholar…they tried to hush that up…the pnm paid for her & her mother to live & study in another country. What kamla & the 40 did were categorize specific payments give it a name “scholarship fund” and say it was discriminatory…what i want to know is during PNM last 8 year stint in office…How many hindus & indians got scholarships & how many africans got….THEN we can compare & say…wait….the lions share of scholarships go to Indians…that is hundreds of millions of dollars (i don’t care about process) the FACT is that the Hindu/Indian community eats up the LION’s share of taxpayer dollars towards scholarships in the billions of dollars & Kamla & the 40 have the gall, the nerve, to say hey! How come a $50 million in 8 years was spent & only 7% went to ‘us’? Do you know why that was attacked? A choke point exists in T&T’s education system where african children are being kept out of the lucrative, prestigious jobs (caste) although there does exist mediocrity in The general african approach to education there are significant numbers who are excelling but blocked from getting in…the word was that manning tried to help those specific cases by assisting them to other countries (hence payment) thag got the racists vex!! They want to effectively block all options to create an ever increasing powerless, u educated, slave u touchable class in T&T (caste ambitions). Still, it was never excluding indians & they got & continue to get the lions share of monies from government for scholarships (hundreds of millions to billions) but want to talk about $50 million? Over 8 years for an entire ethnic group? Give Me A Break! That is an average of 3 open schools a year over 8 years (if compared financially to the output of all the open schools to Indians) However, the record show that there were no expensive, extravagant universities or full scholarships to them even from that “scholarship fund”. They were so nasty they released the names of suspected recipients.. some people were getting like $20,000 and $10,000 …THAT is the big ethnic scholarship conspiracy? HOGWASH
My suspicion is they were using that to justify what they were about to do over the last 5 years,3 months…i’m sure
we’ll hear about ridiculous number of secret open schools to ivy league colleges etc for indians only. wasn’t sharma’s daughter allegedly driving a brand new luxury vehicle & expensive accommodations while attending university in canada after 2010? Remember THAT?
It is no secret that the PNM ran a secret scholarship program for its supporters since independence. I think PNM apologist to this board Alyssa must be new to PNM racism and trickery.
It is a fact that the PNM flooded TNT with 50,000 Islanders and gave them ID cards and told them to vote PNM.
It is a fact that 75% of civil service jobs went to PNM supporters as they savoured the fat of the land and they were given housing and many perks to the exclusion of others. Nobody does racism better than the PNM.
It is a fact that PNM supporters were the prime beneficiary of government scholarships since 1956. I remember one my teachers a strong PNMite getting a scholarship to study abroad while better qualified Indian teachers were overlooked. I saw the hurt in their eyes when PNM teachers were given further training and promotion while they were ignored.
The PNM as a party was born in the bowels of racism and like the cobra produce many broods of racist who come on this board and want us to believe that the PNM is clothe in white rainment. Kian and Alyssa are children of the PNM heading down the road to join lucifer in the bottomless pit. Their folly will soon be exposed for all to see…nuff said.
Moomoo accuses the PNM (african supported administration) of being racist….but can mamoo accuse the RELIGION that african people practice as being racist?? Go ahead …try that one…
Anybody coukd make up lies & accusations without proof..BUTTTTT what intelligent outsiders know is that the belief system (not physical appearance) of individuals are good indications of their behaviour. The vzdt majority of africans are christians(or some derivative), African and islamic….are any of these belief systems known to spread hate for physical appearance (Skin colour)??…hmmmm now let’s look at Indians…the vast Majority Ofmindians in the caribbean are practitioners of Varna Shrama Dharma A.K.A. Brahminism a.k.a. “Hinduism” or some religion that they converted to from “hinduism” & carried over hindu mentality into it…either christianity or Islam…Indian Muslims were once hindus in India…Indian christians are predominantly presbyterian with strong ties to Hinduism (kangal a.k.a. Moomoo) Hinduism is world reknowned for its skin colour/caste ideology
Religion Trumps Political preference….i.e. who you are & what you do
The Failures Of The PNM
List Of The failures By the PNM:
•$19b wasted on Clico which could have been used to do all of the following things- Build the Point Fortin highway, Build the Point Fortin and Arima hospitals, Build the Couva Children’s Hospital, Construct 5 Admin Complexes For the Judiciary, Build 3 Admin Complexes For The Regional Corporations and Build the tennis and Aquatic Centres AND Cycling Velodrome.
•Rowley Calls Fighting School Girls “hyenas In African Jungle”
•Rowley calls First Formers Duncey.
•Criticized The Govt for “passing cloud” called Hurricane Tomas
•Refused to Support The Hanging Bill
•Refused to Support The DNA Bill
•Refused to Support the Electronic Monitoring Bill
•Voted for Admin. Of Justice Act, then Marched aginst it
•Pulls Out Joint Select Committee on Procurement Legislation
•Brings Fabricated emails to Parliament to Mamaguay Citizens
•Holding Secret meetings with Ken Gordon about Emails
•Attacked Lennox Grant about Tapia
•Wants to Bring Back PNM Poperty Tax
•Wants to use Manning’s 2020 Vision and Calls it Vision 2030
•Spent Millions on two Summits For vanity reasons
•Church In Guanapo for Mrs Pena
•$500m spent on Rapid Rail Report
•Las ALturas Towers, Morvant falls apart.
•Tarouba Stadium… Billions spent, no end in Sight
•Scarborough Hospital Started at $150m ended at $750m
•Su the $50m Water Taxi that Can’t float
•The scandal of the $2m legacy flag
•kept biche high school closed
•Christine Kangaloo’s husband got a $530,000 brief from PNM Gov’t
T Man,
This was over, at least, a ten-year period, but don’t stop. Seeing that we are on what caused the UNC to lose the elections, please list the “Failures of the UNC/PP” after only five years.
If that list is too long or is not forthcoming, please explain Lifesport.
T Man, it seems as though you and others like you are not getting it. The people wanted to get rid of the PNM, they got rid of the PNM. But after only one term and all the past failures, the people went back to the PNM.
What caused the return, better campaign strategy, one hour extra voting time or both?
The main cause for losing the election was the under estimated PNM propaganda machine. Kamlamania did go well as Warner consistently chipped away at her image. Rowley’s approach was different he wore white shirt and basically put the party first instead of himself. The UNC strategy was poor because the party groups also came under the spell of Kamlamania and did not function to capacity.
The PNM had their people on the ground running much earlier than the UNC/PP did. The UNC/PP was depending on the amount of work accomplished rather training their workers on how to get the message to the people where it matters. The three seat victory is not a great victory for the PNM and it means with some effort the PNM could be put at the back of the bus again. However I must say with Kamla as PM the political atmosphere in TNT has change. The PNM has reinvented itself and is now a bit more cautious as a party.
Things the PP should have done was take charge of the EBC. The PNM stooges there certainly helped. If anyone think differently why did it take so long for the EBC to declare the election. Strange. Why did the EBC extended the time in contravention of the law. Who was guarding those ballot boxes. The fact is there should have been a recount in Moruga/Tableland, but Decoto was too giving to demand such. That seat should have gone to the PP.
The wretched of the earth will indeed show themselves one way or other, to be wretched. That is not disputed, rather asserted. The question has always been why.
There are many wrong answers given, even and especially by the wretched ourselves. Most of us would rather point fingers at the oppressor. That the indo is to be counted among those is now no more to be doubted. But even so, there is a deeper answer that really must count as the Truth of the matter. That truth is to be found nowhere elsse but in Holy Writ. It has been my burden on this blog to try to bring that out, since my people (Alyssa’s also) tend not to like to read, and have been well inoculated by Satan into rejecting our own story, for no other reason than that it was preserved and handed back to us by our oppressor. That is a mistake, and moreover poor scholarship.
What is the answer given by Holy Writ? We are the wretched of the earth because our Father, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (aka Israel), put us in that condition. Why? The prophet Amos sums up the answer most succinctly:
“You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.” (Amos 3:2)
As the chosen seed of God, we are to Him as a son to a father. As a loving father punishes his own son, so God punishes us. We, His children, well “get away” with nothing.
It is not that we are more wicked than the oppressor. Quite the opposite. But we are being held to a higher standard, that we might learn the lessons that the Most High will have us learn.
“For thou art an holy people unto Yahweh thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.” (Deuteronomy 7:6)
And Moses let us know even before we crossed the Jordan into the Holy Land:
“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of Yahweh thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:…” (Deuteronomy 28:15)
That, in a nutshell, is the sum of the astonishment that the “Negro” are as a people.
As His Chosen, we will be a righteous nation. Those who will not, will be weeded out, and a righteous remnant only will be saved.
“For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return…” (Isaiah 10:22)
That we would be the wretched of the earth is clearly stated by Isaiah, and that there would be oppressors that would succeed, more or less, in making us “bow down” that they might “go over”:
“11 Therefore the redeemed of Yahweh shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass;
13 And forgettest Yahweh thy maker, that hath stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundations of the earth; and hast feared continually every day because of the fury of the oppressor, as if he were ready to destroy? and where is the fury of the oppressor?
14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail.
15 But I am Yahweh thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: Yahweh of hosts is his name.
16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem (i.e. the “Negro/nigger/Bantu etc.), which hast drunk at the hand of Yahweh the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
18 There is none to guide her among all the sons whom she hath brought forth; neither is there any that taketh her by the hand of all the sons that she hath brought up. (our leaderless and abandoned youth full of inchoate rage because they don’t even know who they are)
19 These two things are come unto thee; who shall be sorry for thee? desolation, and destruction, and the famine, and the sword: by whom shall I comfort thee?
20 Thy sons have fainted, they lie at the head of all the streets, as a wild bull in a net (street-corner gangs: they are full of the fury of Yahweh, the rebuke of thy God.
21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, but not with wine:
22 Thus saith thy Lord Yahweh, and thy God that pleadeth the cause of his people, Behold, I have taken out of thine hand the cup of trembling, even the dregs of the cup of my fury; thou shalt no more drink it again:
23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.” (well describes PNM political correctness)
(Isaiah 51:11-23)
This speaks for itself and requires no further commentary from me, except the tenses I have highlighted: “hast drunken”, “have taken”. That is, just as our wretched condition could seemingly get no worse, it is precisely at that point that God would have taken the cup of trembling from our hand. We are at that point now. After the completed action denoted by the use of the perfect tense (“have taken” etc.) comes the use of the future tense (“I will put it into the hand that afflict”). Therefore, those who now set themselves up as our oppressors should put themselves on notice.
May the Most High continue to expose the Wicked, and to bless His servants in carrying out the task of awaking His people at this now crucial juncture. May Yeshua lose none of those entrusted to Him from the foundation of the world.
Shalom.
“Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32)
Just in case I was misunderstood. Stop fooling yourselves, the UNC/PP did not, I repeat, did not lose the election through campaigning or in the last hour on election day. They lost because of their horrendous performance as a Government, period. Are you implying that five years was wiped out in a few weeks, or in one hour? Dotishness.
The PNM lost in 2010 because the then PM lost favour with his supporting electorate during his tenure. That is the same case with the UNC/PP.
Stop whining about losing, suck it up, and to use the words of a former PM, “Lets move on.” When the lady PM won in 2010, the cry was, “the people have spoken,” and “the voice of the people is the voice of God.” Lest we forget, God does not take vacations.
Lol…frontsman is not themselves they want to fool…is US…? Make no mistKe…
“It has been my burden on this blog to try to bring that out, since my people (Alyssa’s also) tend not to like to read,”
And when they read they latch on to one dimensional theories of Hinduism, i.e. Caste and utilize those theories to rationalize their profound prejudice.
They cite and conveniently use restrictive sources of literature to spread their propaganda and hate with an unyielding vengeance mowing down every Indian in their path.
Well if the criticisms are inaccurate, no one has denied you the opportunity to correct the inaccuracies. I see you have not done so. Neither has anyone more knowledgeable stepped forward to do so. And indeed some of the sources used, e.g. with respect to Gandhi, Naipaul, and Hinduism itself, have been the own very words of those criticized.
Even so, you’re welcome to try a rehabilitation of any or all. I for one would be all ears. But I’m not going to hold my breath waiting.
Scripture, for its part, is even more condemning:
“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau…” (Malachi 1:2-3)
“And thou, Asia, that art partaker of the hope of Babylon, and art the glory of her person: Woe be unto thee, thou wretch…” (2 Esdras 15:46-47)
“And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it.” (Obadiah 18)
So far as the indo is concerned, the only question, since not all who are indo are Esau, is whether those who are of God will come out of her in time, to avoid the judgment written:
“…Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.” (Revelation 18:4)
Some will hear, and some literally cannot:
“Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.” (John 8:43-44)
Shalom.
They can only CONFIRM (actions) the ideology. For the past 5 year, 3 month term…did you ever hear Indians protesting as a group on camera about school issues ?..or any for that manner? Look at the news 2 months into office they complaining about this & that….NO SHAME…but as i indicated they expect thus type of behaviour & twisted vision to go unnoticed!!
“They cite and conveniently use restrictive sources of literature to spread their propaganda and hate with an unyielding vengeance mowing down every Indian in their path.”………TMan
There is nothing wrong with defending your cause and when you do, you must always bear in mind what gave rise to that which you are defending. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that TMan and others would prefer not to have us discuss hinduism, caste and emanating behavior. If such discussions were bent on slander and misrepresentation, I would be the first to denounce it (yes TMan, I would). But first we must understand why such discussions are necessary and important for the good of Trinidad and Tobago. There are many statistics branded about the census and what constitutes Indian ‘majority’ and mixed and Africans etc etc etc. Firstly, at present we have a malfunctioning CSO (Central Statistical Office) and whatever available figures that are given must be taken with a grain of salt. It is our hope that the new government would change that. So, just as TMan is unhappy about what is written, we too are unhappy about the numbers that are peddled by himself and Mamoo. But we must also defend their rights to so do. When Sat Maharaj wanted to lend his voice to the unfortunate behavior of one of the UNC former ministers, who was accused of assaulting his child mamma in front of his girlfriend and there was a public outcry (he is also a PUNDIT). He made qualified reference to the little boy by saying “the little brahmin boy”. This remark came from the nation’s number one racist, number one pundit, number one Indian, number one hindu and number one instigator of Indian affairs. In other words, there should be no mistake on how The number of Indian views Indian affairs in Trinidad and Tobago. Sat made sure he defended the cause and status of this little brahmin boy. So, when TMan uses his ‘authority’ whatever that is or his ‘information’ wherever he got it from and his rebuke, whatever that might mean to denounce our references to those words, he must first know what he is talking about.
We have many and varied reasons for discussing those matters. For more than a hundred and forty five years, the most visible contact the African had with the Indian was during the class hours of 8 am to 4 pm ( during the school year in school). They were intimately familiar with our religion and religious beliefs. They were intimately familiar with our behavior. They were intimately familiar with our culture and mores and family life as well. BUTT… for most of those behaviors the Indian reserved that for home or more intimate gatherings like mandirs, weddings and religious gatherings and so on. In effect, his behavior was not as exposed as that of the African. The resulting fact is that we happen to be two differently thinking people. What is good might be bad for you and what is sacred for me might be open season for you. What is immmoral for me might be considered moral for you. What is considered corruption for me might not be even considered at all for you. And this is where we are today. We have two ethnic groups whose behavior appears to be diametrically opposed to each other. It is therefore a prerogative to learn to understand the hindu more so than the muslim or christian. Both muslim and christian share some beliefs BUT not so the hindu. So to term this as HATE is an over exaggeration of intent. Politics have always been a defining moment in race relations. Coming off an election where the then government in power made use of hinduism as if it were the national religion is cause for more than concern. It is cause for retrospection. Were we to be derelict in making examination of that fact a reality, then we deserved to become slaves all over again. And that is not going to happen. With that in mind, TMan should join with us and help us understand what lies below the difference in our ways. One thing to be sure, we are NOT going to be the kind of Caribbean mind that Winston Dookeran told his hosts in India he wants us to be – an satellite of Indian. No sireeeeeee…. We are culturally Caribbean and to water down that culture is to make us vulnerable for the next colonial wannabe masters. With knowledge, education, power and know-how India can become such a forced the easiest way to do that is through the use of soft means as food, trade and social entices. THIS IS WHY WE MUST GET TO KNOW ALL WE CAN ABOUT THE HINDU!
Youruba, my eyes aren’t what they used to be…please read the following article in the newsday regarding Naipaul & hus utterances on indian culture & please report to us what you’ve seen
“Naipaul:I WAS Abused” Newsday, Andre Bagoo
My response has been blocked for being “spammy”, even after several tries at removing possibly offending phrases. So for the moment I give up. Pressure of other commitment calls.
Shalom.
Ohhhhhhh Yorhba!…yoh got the “spammy” excuse too?…..the first time i mentioned or should i say referenced Naipaul’s utterances a coupke days ago (lengthy contribution at that) it was rubbished with that excuse… i tried numerous times to edit so as not to lose it but i had to…..i’m wondering now if there’s a connection between that & numerous other times i resoonded but my contribution had to be rubbished because of “captcha” which was re entered correctly over & over to no avail…
i am suspicious
Most interesting…
It’s very easy to program a spam filter to keep out certain no-go areas.
Between silver and lead, it’s also more or less easy to “get” to someone…
But the Master is in charge, so I don’t worry overmuch about earthly powers for the moment that be.
Shalom.
“When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever…” (Psalm 92:7)
Yoruba….do you think Naipaul’s utterances in hus autobiography will be deemed “Hate Speech” by Tman,Mamoo & Loyal (To Caste) Trini?
An admission to “offending phrases”…the height of religious hypocrisy.
Do you know what hypocrisy means?
Let me give you an example…the discussion of caste & hindu ideology on this & any media is “offensive” to many racists….but becuase they (you Tman) find it offensive doesn’t mean that we believe it to be “offensive” in the teue sense of the word…so mandela’s freedom movement & majority rather than minority rule was offensive to racist pro apartheid white south africans…should mandela have considered that “offense” to racist sensibilities of merit & worthy of him halting the movement…?…NO!
Er… offensive to the spam filter…check your reading comprehension…
Stephen Kangal is probably the blackest skin human being in T&T, however, that doesn’t stop his mind from distinguishing Indians from Africans by using the colour “black”…Africans are black & indians are Indian. LOL… see? Converting to christianity doesn’t erase the caste mindset.
what a disgrace!…self deception as i said before is the worst form of deception.
“they latch on to one dimensional theories.” Tmiss
Yesss yesssss…we must allow you & your ilk to throw 10,000 dimensions at us to comfuffle the mind into not seing what’s llain & true. Neither i nor other inquisitive Africans in T&T are interested in Every single dimension of hinduism….when i’m training to be a pundit i’ll consult you! No, we want to understand the origin, nature & function of indian racism….the “rainbow” of information in this search led to “Hinduism” & ancient indian culture.we are amazed & disgusted at the “pot of gold” we found…but not SO disgusted that we are willing to believe the cock & bull that you want to feed us. “Hinduism teaches that all lives are sacred”…hahahahaa….like an ‘orwellian’ farm…i.e. some lives are “more sacred” than others….
You have degraded this Blog with your gutter sniping, name calling, gross generalizations, biased opinions and frequent crudity.
You have also appealed to the racist nature of your admirers and loyal followers who I suspect lacked the mauvais langue fortitude to express the racist crudities in which you revel.
Your type of disparaging bacchanal belong to the stalls of the Port of Spain market and has no place in civilized conversation.
That is what you call an ad hominem, and a crude one at that.
That is of course the sign that you have lost the argument.
But I continue to wait, no doubt in vain, for an actual argument that might rehabilitate Gandhi, Naipaul, brahminism/hinduism/Sat-ism/UNC-ism and whatever else.
May the Most High continue to expose the wicked, and protect the innocent in all these matters.
Shalom.
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.
I realized that I was the only one having a discussion. Pity!
Lol…..you keep quoting unknown soucrces as fountains of wisdom….the real question is…who determines what is the definition of an argument or a discussion? Himself congratulating himself for an analysis well done on himself..??
you are a child!
Ohhhh Port Of Spain market…..not Debe Or Siparia Market?
Whether it is Kangal, TMAN, Mamoo or any of the Indian ethno supremacist, whose views parallel the same contextual pattern found among every racist right wing group in this world, what we see and hear from them is a continuation of “F.E.M. Hosein’s enunciation in 1913 that, ”
If the East Indian showed that progressive increase in number which they had shown up to now, and taking into account their natural productivity, it was no mere hyperbolical statement that Indians would people the colony and drive out the rest of the inhabitants. The African was not as productive as the East Indian and if circumstances did not compel him to leave the colony, he would naturally die out. Such a thing had taken place in Mauritius. And Trinidad would be maintained and owned by the Indian in the field, the office and the shop.
Regardless of what kind of package they employ to camouflage it, peel of the facade and you will see F.E.M Hosein’s plan for T&T. Take a look at Mauritius and the putrid anti black racist enclave it has become. Take a look at Fiji and see what the indigenous peoples of that Island was driven to by the odious and perverted racism they witnessed subsuming that idyllic Pacific Island where their ancestors had been living in peace and harmony until the arrival of a group with the kind of racist personality unknown to that part of the world.
The British ever fearful of Africans controlling the islands and mainland colonies brought the only group they knew would be repositories of the same racist animus for Africans. This was not an accident.
I believe that Bernard Yawching nails it in his enunciation that, The Cabal does not speak for all Indians in this country! I know for sure that there has been marginalization against all Indians who have stood against the racist and greedy agenda of the Cabal.
Persons claiming that Indians had been marginalized and discriminated against in this country are being untruthful!
Any government practicing oppression or discrimination against any group or people do not allow the oppressed to access free education, health care, food in schools, loans for land and farming, freedom of expression and movement and the list goes on and on. They would not have been allowed to own 80% of businesses and so much real estate.
Surely the claims of the UNC regarding racism being practiced and promoted by the PNM must be ludicrous, deceitful and obscene.
When I hear cries of racism I see the “victims” as a bunch of hypocrites and liars crying wolf while eating the chickens, a wicked group that would do everything possible to justify their racist agenda.
Like he pointed out, not all Indians are walking around with this kind of thinking, this kind of hatred, this kind of agenda, not even the majority. But those who are make up for that with the fervor with which they pursue their agenda. And we must never allow ourselves to be taken in by their hypocrisy.
I hear you rodwell BUTTTTT 18 seats….is 18 seats….
Lol….
“……Hypocrites & Liars….Crying wolf & eating all the chickens…”
Yup, That sounds about right!
Just for reference…that speech by F.E.M. Hosein is available in Dr. Tony Martin’s Article “African & Indian Consciousness”….google & download (PDF).
F.E.M. Hosein is kangal’s political grandfather. All the years of accusing PNM & their supporters being racist & a racist agaenda…but look at that Nazi speech by the political ancestor of the UNC….openly declaring war on African people & like i said…envious of amauritius. These speeches were fresh in the mind of wise african voters from 1956 til 1986…when they were fooled into “forget dat nah” “one love”…..how can someone love you & hate your children marrying theirs at the same time.